Dave isn’t quite sure how he came across this thread on Twitter but lucky for us he did. Here is the thread that promoted Louisville over Florida State and other ACC schools.

What jumped out to him was that someone had picked 2014 as the starting year for the graphic. Why 2014? This was posted in 2020 so why not go back one recruiting class (4 years) or a decade (10 years). Why did they pick 2014? There must be some motive and data that skews in favor of Louisville with that date right? And he was correct!

Recruiting Data for Colleges

Below are links to all the recent draft picks for the three schools in the graphic. Note how from 2000-2013 Louisville didn’t have many draft picks, let alone first rounders!

Monthly, Quarterly and Yearly Reporting

With COVID you may be changing how and when you report. Know how trends, holidays, and just changes in the world outside of your business can impact reporting.

Also question those that choose certain time frames to report on. Is that a business decision or are they doing it to make their team/campaign/project look better than they should?

Internal Reporting

To get more budget for a project, campaign or channel you need to know your own data. There needs to be a report of “truth” and understanding between teams and people how data is pulled, calculated and reported.

Spend 30 minutes a week in Google Search Console & Bing Webmaster, Google Analtyics and in your CRM/Backend. Learn the data. Know the data.

Reports From Agencies

Does your agency present data you care about or do they make up metrics and data points? Are you all on the same page on what matters and what is a sale, lead and so on?

In the end you are responsible and need to know the data better than your consultant and agencies. Always ask for the raw data with reports and be sure to look at reports and data from PPC Agency, Social Media Agency, PR Agency, SEO Agency or anyone!

Full Transcript

Matt Siltala: [00:00:00] Welcome to another exciting episode of the business of digital podcast, featuring your host, Matt  and Dave roar. Hey guys, excited to be here with you on another one of these episodes of the business of digital podcast. Um, we’re going to have a unique one for us today. We get to talk sports, Dave. Well, not just for,

Dave Rohrer: [00:00:25] I mean, when I saw it.

When I saw the tweet that started all this, I was like, that would be fun. And an excuse for us to talk college football.

Matt Siltala: [00:00:33] I mean, we need to talk about something sports related right now with no sports going on or at least like barely starting up again. I don’t know. Anyway, I think we’re going to go with the title of a always questioned the data or always questioned data

Dave Rohrer: [00:00:49] like that is better.

Matt Siltala: [00:00:50] All right. Always question the data, but, uh, yeah, go ahead. And, uh, And, uh, start us off Dave and let us know what, what prompted you to this? [00:01:00] And we’ll go from there.

Dave Rohrer: [00:01:01] I don’t think this is a real Twitter account. It’s the Vil? Nine six four zero seven two zero six four. Oh. I didn’t even realize that before. Uh, what kind of account is that?

Is that like your, your phone number or something?

Matt Siltala: [00:01:18] I don’t know.

Dave Rohrer: [00:01:19] That’s weird,

Matt Siltala: [00:01:20] but I can’t think that there’s that many people wanting the Ville

Dave Rohrer: [00:01:24] now. No, but what started this? Isn’t I don’t even remember how I went down a rabbit hole, but there

Matt Siltala: [00:01:33] was for us to do that.

Dave Rohrer: [00:01:35] Yeah. I know. I don’t spend that much time on Twitter these days.

So the fact that I got down this rabbit hole also shocked me, but it was something about some recruit. And actually it was like, some of it was from a year ago and then people were talking about it, yada, yada. But what was interesting was just the list of people. I don’t even know if the guy was going to see it, but just [00:02:00] suggesting reasons why.

Their school is where they should go and play football at. Um, I was like, Oh cool. You know, they’re not even, maybe some of them are alumni or just fans. They’re trying to help, you know, the coaches recruit. Cool. But one thing that jumped out at me was this picture that someone really nicely made and it’ll be on the site for Louisville talking about.

The most first round picks in the ACC since 2014. And it showed like Lamar Jackson and, uh, Teddy Bridgewater, a couple other guys that kind of recognize, but those are the two biggest names. Um, and you know, unfortunately Louisville since 2014 has more number one picks than Florida state. Not as many as Clemson, but I thought that was a really interesting number.

That they pick 2014. So this is how this was in 20, 20 that’s six years. Why did they pick six [00:03:00] years gap? You know, they didn’t pick in the last decade, you know, most Trump picks in the last decade and they only think the ACC, they didn’t compare themselves to, you know, any other conferences or, or schools in that state.

Um, But I was like, why would they pick six years? They didn’t pick the last recruiting class, which would have been the last four years. They didn’t pick the last five years. They didn’t pick the last, you know, 10 in the last decade. We’ve crushed it. They picked six. So I being nosy. I’m also because I was curious why and how Louisville was well, Florida state hasn’t been that great the last couple of years, so it didn’t shock me too much, but, um, I did find it interesting.

And I went and thanks. Wikipedia found that before 2014 Louisville had white won first round pick in like five years. So if I went back [00:04:00] to 2010, I think they had one. And then they had like one in 2009 or something like that. And so I was like, Oh, so if you go back a decade of drafts, they only add one more while Clemson adds like six more and Florida state ads, like four or five more and suddenly they’re not number two.

So they’re whoever created this, probably someone at Louisville was nitpicking and picking the data that told the story they wanted. And that’s really what got me to this whole thing is so often. When people present data at

Matt Siltala: [00:04:36] you mean totally new data to be in their favor, Dave, they,

Dave Rohrer: [00:04:40] they might, if they’re trying to get budget and they’re trying to make, you know, their team look good or their campaign look good, or their agency, you know, they’re leaving out certain things.

Um, I’m sure people might do it from time to time. And this was just an [00:05:00] in and for me it was an obvious example of why did they pick that date? That’s really interesting. And, Oh, look, that’s why. Yeah, because it told the story they wanted. And if you looked back and if you took off like one year and went back five years, instead of six, again, Louisville looked not so good because they had two years where they had like three pics and everything else is like, you know, goo Sykes.

Matt Siltala: [00:05:25] You know, it’s, it’s interesting. Um, I’ll just share with you a thought that came across while we’re, while we’re, you know, on this. Um, I’ve talked with so many people and again, those, those type of people that I trust with data, we’re talking like the Susan winter grads, the Annie Cushings, people like that, um, that have told me, or that when they have talked with other agencies or other clients, for example, Where they have been shown, Hey, this is like, work that’s been done, or this is data that’s been showed to us, or this is what’s been, you know, [00:06:00] like, uh, said how, you know, proof or whatever you will, that it’s working.

They look at it and they’re just like, they instantly can see the manipulation going on. They can instantly pick that apart. I can’t tell you how many times these individuals have, have told me, like, yeah, I got this. Um, Report back from work that had been done on this account for over a year, whether it be like, you know, Facebook, a paid at whatever, or just regular, you know, Google ads, whatever it might be.

And just like the numbers that they’re showing these clients to try to prove their worth has basically been complete BS and garbage, and that kind of stuff is happening all the time. And so just more to your point of people doing this kind of stuff and always questioning that data. Um, It just, you have to, you have to be aware, you have to understand that that kind of stuff’s going on.

So I think it’s, it’s good that we’re talking about this

Dave Rohrer: [00:06:57] also Louisville, you had all of two [00:07:00] first round picks the entire years of 2000 to 2010. So now I’m looking at the way computer data and yeah. So 2014, you know, they had Calvin prior Marcus Smith, Terry Bridgewater, they had three number ones that year.

None, not even a single person picked in 2013, one in 2012. So yeah, whoever created this, this graphic clearly picked and use that data and then, Oh, look, you know, nitpicked it. And here’s the visual. And it’s telling this story that I want to tell. Um, I’ve had a boss, a couple of bosses, but one that really was big on data.

Every monthly report I had to create, we always had to have the data in the back. So it’s like, here’s the pretty charts that you can use in your quarterly or monthly meetings with the CEO and the board. Um, you know, here’s what we can talk through in our team meetings, you know, but then he really wanted the data in back because he [00:08:00] would then look for trends.

So it’s like, okay, that’s great. You know, that’s pretty, who cares? You know, what are you seeing? And then he would dig into the PPC data. He would dig into the SEO data, the rankings, um, traffic, and be like, okay, well, Why is this section of the site doing this? And why is that? And, you know, come up with his own questions.

And we did it all the time and, you know, there was no BSE in him. Yeah. Because he would want to look at the data himself and come up with his own questions, his own, you know, you couldn’t sugarcoat it.

Matt Siltala: [00:08:34] Well, I think the most important thing that you’re trying to get across to people, and I hope that that’s what they’re getting from this, from listening to this.

As is maybe, you know, there’s not some like magic thing that you could do to like prevent people from showing you data in their favor. But the, the point here is to do exactly what you said, Dave, and question it like when you’re presented something or you’re given something, especially that it’s looking really [00:09:00] favorable to the person that’s presenting it to you.

Um, it’s not that you’re saying, Hey, I don’t trust you. I don’t believe you. But it’s, you’re questioning that it should probably be something that you’re automatically doing and you’re not just taking their word for it. You’re not just leaving your business to chance, so to speak. You’re actually figuring out the truth behind that, you know, is there truth behind this data and, and going from there.

And I think that’s kind of what you’re getting at. And I think that’s what people need to take away from this.

Dave Rohrer: [00:09:29] And I once worked when I was in house, we had this PPC agency. Uh, and they kept quoting all of the Google, um, conversion data, even though every single freaking time we met with them, we would go and remind them that those numbers are complete junk because just because Google says that someone converted and filled out a form, if they filled out five forms, Google would count it five times.

Yeah, we got [00:10:00] one lead and that was a bad lead cause it was a junk because they used a fake email. So actually those are zero, you know, and they kept going, Oh, you know, our, our CPLs are this and dah, dah, dah. I’m like, no, actually it’s way higher than that. And you’re not even close to what we’re trying to get to because that number is not a real number.

That’s just, you know, make belief. And I actually use that now. I actually flip it. Um, I have one client now where I actually pay attention to it because, and you kind of have to now with Google, if we want to get to the point where I can turn on automation and let the AI take over some of the bidding for us, we have to watch it and understand what percentage of the conversions that it thinks are happening.

That the way we’re tracking stuff and. Monitor that to understand how close is it to reality? Like, cause that’ll help us [00:11:00] then set our CPA type bidding. So because we’re question, I’m always questioning the data. I every week look at the, the number of conversions, quote, unquote, that show up from Google ads.

And then I compare it to the funnel. How many were bad leads? How many are good leads? How many closed? How many sales did we get? How many did we lose? But at least, you know, we’re moving down the pipeline and then I compare it and go, okay, well, we had 10 conversions in Google ads, but really only five leads and only one good one.

Okay. You know, and then the next week, maybe it’s closer. Maybe it’s farther away, but I have to use that data because if I want to get to the point where we can turn on certain features, when need to know the data.

Matt Siltala: [00:11:48] Yeah. Yeah. It’s just that all of this just makes me think of like, uh, if, if people are not paying attention to this, like what are some sources that like, I don’t know if you have any tips for them [00:12:00] to be able to like, Mmm, I dunno, like what’s the right word here.

Like question or, you know, like any kind of, uh, uh,

Dave Rohrer: [00:12:09] analytics check your CRM.

Matt Siltala: [00:12:12] All right. Yeah. There you go. Sorry. Go ahead.

Dave Rohrer: [00:12:14] No, that was, I mean, that’s, that is my tip. If your agency knows your data better than you, you failed. Yeah. If, if you hire an SEO agency or a social agency or a consultant or PPC person, and they know that data better than you you’ll you’ll, you’ll never be able to win that question.

You’ll know you won’t understand it. And if you don’t understand it, they could be giving you garbage and you won’t know. And so when you then take that. Data or there was reports and you can take it up to someone or you try to, you know, say, Hey, look, look at these wins. And these successes, this campaign has been crushing it and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then someone else internally that does get the numbers and does see beyond whatever [00:13:00] that little, you know, manipulated data that you’re looking at is, and they basically rip you apart. Because you’re going to them asking for budget resources, something, and trying to give them basically junk to support yourself.

If I don’t, I don’t know if you’ll always, you know, if you won’t get away with it from time to time, but I have to think that there’s going to be more times than not where someone’s going to call you out on it. And if you don’t understand how you got to that, that data point. And you can’t explain it to me.

That would be a huge red flag and go well, if you don’t know how you got this data point, how can you claim and how are you using this as you know, to support yourself? No, you know, if you, if you don’t know how you’re getting to that, that average sale cost and you know what the average order is, and you know, how your, how we’re winning and how you’re succeeding, why would I give you more [00:14:00] budget?

Yeah, because really the numbers, when I look at it, show that. Your channel or your campaign was actually the least successful, you know, of last month of everything we did.

Matt Siltala: [00:14:10] Oh, geez. Yeah.

Dave Rohrer: [00:14:12] You know, but because someone manipulated the data to try to tell that story, to make them look good. It’s not, it’s not real.

Matt Siltala: [00:14:21] So here’s the real question,

Dave Rohrer: [00:14:23] Dave, like, like Google? Well, like when someone uses the overall ranking data for Google search console, . Cause it just averages everything, but it’s yeah. Sorry.

Matt Siltala: [00:14:38] No, that’s fine. So, so here’s the real question though that I have in all this. So how many draft picks are, is Florida going to have this year?

Dave Rohrer: [00:14:48] Florida or Florida?

Matt Siltala: [00:14:49] Sorry, Florida state versus Louisville.

Dave Rohrer: [00:14:54] Uh, I don’t know.

Matt Siltala: [00:14:57] That was funny. Um,

[00:15:00] Dave Rohrer: [00:15:00] that’s interesting. We have another new coach. I don’t

Matt Siltala: [00:15:02] know. I hope. I just hope that we hit sports. I just want to start watching sports again.

Dave Rohrer: [00:15:11] We had one in 2019 one in 2018, nine one, two one. But yeah. And the other thing about that data is if they added 2013, Florida state had three number one picks in 2013, which would have put us way above them.

Matt Siltala: [00:15:32] So again, manipulating the data.

Dave Rohrer: [00:15:34] Well, yeah, picking, nitpicking the data and nitpicking the years. You know, what if, what if we just look at the last week or the last two weeks? Well, why don’t we look at the last month? No, let’s just look at the last two weeks. Yeah. Or let’s look at, you know, year over year or month over month.

No, let’s just look at, you know, the last week versus the previous week. Well, the previous week was, you know, a holiday week, so that’s going to be low. Oh, yeah. That’s yeah. Oh [00:16:00] yeah. I forgot about that. No, of course you did. Yeah, of course they did.

Matt Siltala: [00:16:06] Well. Any, any final thoughts on a questioning of the day to day?

Dave Rohrer: [00:16:12] I think no, the data spend time in it. Um, I’ve talked about this before, probably way too many times, but schedule 30 minutes a week. To dig into your Google analytics or, you know, Pickwick or whatever analytics solution you have spend set up another 30 minutes to dig into your Google search console, your things, search console by mastered stuff, dig

Matt Siltala: [00:16:39] into that.

Those that he’s talking about, then you need to get on them and smack

Dave Rohrer: [00:16:42] it. Um, spend a nut, you know, set up another 15, 30 minutes and dig into your own conversion data, your own CRM. And understand where leads are coming from. Sales are coming from. If you’re in retail, you know, understand what products are selling [00:17:00] or not selling, you know, compare what’s ranking.

Well to, what’s not selling a lot or what’s getting horrible conversions, you know, is it because you’re pricing? Is it because you’re better? Description is outdated? Is it because, you know, it’s just not what people want and it’s not optimized for the right thing. You know, take a look at all that data and keep educating yourself more and more and be, try to be the most educated person on the data.

So that one, if you really want to, you can try to pull the wool over someone else’s I guess, um, and manipulate the data, but really so that someone can’t do it to you. Yeah. You know, use the data for good. Hopefully

Matt Siltala: [00:17:42] I like it like it a lot, so. All right guys, data. Hopefully a you understand, and, and at least we’re going to set you on the path of starting to question and figure out your data for yourself.

And, uh, I do appreciate you taking the time and going over this with us, uh, all from a sports [00:18:00] tweet, Dave. Yes. I finally got to work that in.

Dave Rohrer: [00:18:04] I was like, that’s a good excuse.

Matt Siltala: [00:18:07] All right. Well, as always guys, um, we would love if you’re listening to us, uh, On any platform. Thank you. But if you’re on iTunes, definitely go and give us a five star rating.

Take that time. It means a lot to us and definitely helps us out. So for Dave roar with Northside metrics, I met selves a little with avalanche media and thank you guys for joining us. We’ll catch you on the next one. Bye. All.

Dave Rohrer: [00:18:28] Thanks.

E160 – Why You Should Always Question Data Hosts:

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